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topic posted Wed, October 6, 2004 - 9:50 AM by  Unsubscribed
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snagged this link from another group...whaddya think?
www.advocate.com/new_news.asp
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  • Re: ???

    Wed, October 6, 2004 - 12:35 PM
    If we are talking about the Cheney/Edwards debate, I think it's safe to say that most Europeans are amazed that a country priding itself of its long tradition of individual freedom and liberty can be so backwards when it comes to an issue such as gay marriage - and sad that the Democrats haven't got the balls to stand up for what I hope they believe in - or maybe they really think much alike the Republicans?
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      Re: ???

      Wed, October 6, 2004 - 12:42 PM
      hmmm for some reason the link isnt going directly to the one i wanted to share..try this

      www.advocate.com/new_news.asp

      the article is about 2 gay guys that oppose gay marriage
      • Re: ???

        Wed, October 6, 2004 - 12:45 PM
        Well, this is a new twist, using this in an ad. I've read several things where GLBT individuals oppose gay marriage in spirit, even where some of them still support the legality aspects.
        • Re: ???

          Wed, October 6, 2004 - 2:57 PM
          It really does boggle my mind. I can understand a gay person who has no interest in ever having a long term relationship, living in his/her own world and not caring about the rights of marriage.

          But for a couple who ARE in a LTR? They may have tons of legal paperwork that may or may not approximate the rights of marriage (durable power of attorney, living will, etc), but one of these days they'll learn that those don't mean squat to a lot of courts. And never mind all the countless little things that marriage grants which those documents do not. They'll change their tune eventually.
          • Re: ???

            Sat, October 9, 2004 - 1:26 AM
            I don't understand either position: even if you don't want or believe in marriage or even long term relationships, the fact that people who are like you aren't allowed to marry should piss you off: Wouldn't red heads if their fellow red heads weren't allowed to marry?
            • Re: ???

              Tue, October 12, 2004 - 5:27 PM
              Well, I would fight that fight for them, because I want me a redhead to marry, hehe
            • Re: ???

              Mon, October 25, 2004 - 12:06 AM
              Lars what is the red head bashing? LOL, As a red head yes I would be just as pissed off if redheads could not get marrried.

              Lawayne,
              Hollywood, ca
          • Re: ???

            Wed, October 20, 2004 - 12:51 PM
            i understand to a certain degree, and i live in massachusetts.

            for years i've been perfectly content not to have the right. i've liked the separation between my life and the straight majority. i've always thought of it as part of gay culture. that we've never had it, never needed it, and can live without it. we've created our own forms.

            times change, though. now that i do have the right, even if i don't exercise it, i DO NOT want it taken away. i've been sending plenty of letters and emails saying the same.

            sadly, looks like those of us in mass will remain the lucky minority, and we may not keep it here for more than a couple more years.
      • Re: ???

        Tue, October 19, 2004 - 6:32 PM
        It really sucks that they're actually taking a public stance to *OPPOSE* marriage.

        However, from my perspective, it's even more unfortunate that movements for GLBTQ liberation / rights have focused so much time and energy recently on the divisive issue of "marriage." After all, "marriage" laws only serve to benefit those of us Queers who are primarily involved in 2-person relationships. Although this may fit the bill for many, maybe even most, GLBTQ folks, it certainly does not benefit ALL of us. What about those of us who are polyamorous, or anti-assimilationist Queers who don't fit into mainstream, dominant cultural values like 2-person relationships.

        I myself am strongly opposed to the Federal Marriage Amendment because of the disastrous consequences it could wreck. But i personally do not lend my energy to "support" or endorsement for same-sex "marriage." I'm not "opposed" to marriage. But these days, either/or thinking has so pervaded most Gay rights groups that if you say you're not 100% behind 2-person gender-blind marriage than it's as if there's something wrong with you.

        It amazes me how support for what was once seen as a Gay neo-conservative platform endorsing marriage has become a kind of litmus test as to whether or not one truly supports GLBTQ "equal rights." Some GLBTQ activists come across as Gay fundamentalists in their overzealous support of marriage as a panacea or unqualified good. Those of us who favor
        GLBT Queer liberation would be wise to critique and challenge the heterosexism and misogyny underlying the institution of marriage and seek to transform gender inequality as part of our becoming included in the legal defintion of "marriage." Otherwise, it becomes the ultimate in assimilationism, trying to fit in without working to change the dominant, heterosexist culture.

        Besides, we would do better to focus more of our efforts on legislation that would benefit ALL GLBTQ people: namely legislation which prohibits discrimination in employment,. housing etc... on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity. Also, passing hate crimes legislation is a more important issue in my eyes than "marriage". Once, these rights, which serve to benefit all GLBTQ folks, not just those in 2-person relationships, are in place, there would likely be more social tolerance and acceptance for Queers and a better chance at getting gender-blind marriage laws passed. As it stands now, all the media attention created by so many same-sex marriages taking place before the majority of Americans are ready appears to be creating a backlash which could actually result in the passage of the Federal Marriage Amendment sometime next year. After all, isn't it close to 40 states now with laws that define "marriage" as exclusively the union of one man and one woman?? All it takes is 36 states to ratify the FMA to make it part of the Constitution.

        And for all you Kerry/Edwards supporters out there, do you all really think that Kerry, once elected, is above changing his mind and supporting the Federal Marriage Amendment?? Does anybody remember Clinton's promises to GLBTQ folks which he abandoned after being elected??

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