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Forgive me if this has been mentioned before. I've been really busy the last few months and haven't had time to read or post. But I've been really worrying a lot about this topic lately.
If a Contstitutional ban does unfortunately happen (which I hope it doesn't, but I can't fortell the future), would that mean that no one ever would be allowed to change it in the future when hopefully people are more educated and understanding towards orientations?
Does a constitutional ammendment stand forever or can it be struck down? I know laws can be struck down, but in my understanding, (and forgive me if I'm wrong...I don't know a lot about politics and government) what's in the Constitution can't be changed once it's there...like freedom of speach and all that. Will marriage forever be the priviledge of just those who fit a certain stereotype of what's traditional (despite the fact polygamy came before the current traditional marriage definition...and the fact that blacks couldn't marry whites -- or am I wrong on that last one too?)
Anyway, forgive any mistakes I may have quoted. Like I said, I don't know a lot about this, but it seems that the reasoning behind Bush and his like-minded minions wanting such an ammendment would be because it would have permanant status for as long as the government as we know it exists. Am I wrong here? I hope so. Please help me out with this because that would severly impair future generations to make progress in human rights and equality. And it seems to me that that's the idea behind Bush's proposal and the intentions of him and his followers.
I mean, what if 100 years ago there was an addition to the constitution that stated black people could never marry whites, vote, or whatever other limitation they, in their ancient mindsets, deemed was necessary to the preservation of the white society that this country was built on? That sounds very much like the words they speak now regarding what our society was supposedly built on.
But the fact is that you can't base today and tomorrow and the entire future on what was considered moral, or right, or wrong, or traditional in the past. We slowly learn and become more civilized and understanding of others (though it takes some real arm twisting for some people to give up certain things) and realize that the things we believed about people in the past were based on ignorance, misinformation, stereotypes, and whatnot...at least some of us do.
The fact that there still exists a KKK (though not nearly as large in membership and visibility) proves that there will always be people who hold on to discrimination, probably due to the fact that it makes insecure people feel like they are better than someone and serve some sort of purpose in trying to keep those that are "less worthy" or "heathens" or whatever in fear or something. They want to make sure that they will never feel completely as if they are a full member of society.
I realize and unfortunately accept the fact that there will always be those that hate (or as some say "not hate the person but hate the sin") gay people and those that have learned from peers, parents, or whoever that homosexuality is "gross" and affiliation with someone who is such would cause their own reputation to be in question, etc.
Anyway, I've typed quite a bit, so I'll stop about now...sorry about that. But the bottom line is the question I asked at the beginning of the topic, "If a Contstitutional ban does unfortunately happen, would that mean that no one ever would be allowed to do away with it or somehow fix it in the future?"
Please, if there are people on here who know about this kind of thing, please help me out. It's been bothering me for too long.
Amber
www.saphronstar.com
If a Contstitutional ban does unfortunately happen (which I hope it doesn't, but I can't fortell the future), would that mean that no one ever would be allowed to change it in the future when hopefully people are more educated and understanding towards orientations?
Does a constitutional ammendment stand forever or can it be struck down? I know laws can be struck down, but in my understanding, (and forgive me if I'm wrong...I don't know a lot about politics and government) what's in the Constitution can't be changed once it's there...like freedom of speach and all that. Will marriage forever be the priviledge of just those who fit a certain stereotype of what's traditional (despite the fact polygamy came before the current traditional marriage definition...and the fact that blacks couldn't marry whites -- or am I wrong on that last one too?)
Anyway, forgive any mistakes I may have quoted. Like I said, I don't know a lot about this, but it seems that the reasoning behind Bush and his like-minded minions wanting such an ammendment would be because it would have permanant status for as long as the government as we know it exists. Am I wrong here? I hope so. Please help me out with this because that would severly impair future generations to make progress in human rights and equality. And it seems to me that that's the idea behind Bush's proposal and the intentions of him and his followers.
I mean, what if 100 years ago there was an addition to the constitution that stated black people could never marry whites, vote, or whatever other limitation they, in their ancient mindsets, deemed was necessary to the preservation of the white society that this country was built on? That sounds very much like the words they speak now regarding what our society was supposedly built on.
But the fact is that you can't base today and tomorrow and the entire future on what was considered moral, or right, or wrong, or traditional in the past. We slowly learn and become more civilized and understanding of others (though it takes some real arm twisting for some people to give up certain things) and realize that the things we believed about people in the past were based on ignorance, misinformation, stereotypes, and whatnot...at least some of us do.
The fact that there still exists a KKK (though not nearly as large in membership and visibility) proves that there will always be people who hold on to discrimination, probably due to the fact that it makes insecure people feel like they are better than someone and serve some sort of purpose in trying to keep those that are "less worthy" or "heathens" or whatever in fear or something. They want to make sure that they will never feel completely as if they are a full member of society.
I realize and unfortunately accept the fact that there will always be those that hate (or as some say "not hate the person but hate the sin") gay people and those that have learned from peers, parents, or whoever that homosexuality is "gross" and affiliation with someone who is such would cause their own reputation to be in question, etc.
Anyway, I've typed quite a bit, so I'll stop about now...sorry about that. But the bottom line is the question I asked at the beginning of the topic, "If a Contstitutional ban does unfortunately happen, would that mean that no one ever would be allowed to do away with it or somehow fix it in the future?"
Please, if there are people on here who know about this kind of thing, please help me out. It's been bothering me for too long.
Amber
www.saphronstar.com
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Re: If a Contstitutional ban does happen...
Thu, February 10, 2005 - 1:42 PMThe U.S. Constitution can be changed. Amendments can be added and then removed. Ever heard of "prohibition", the amendment that banned alcoholic beverages? It was added in 1919 and removed in 1933.
Once the Congress (that means both the House of Reprentatives and the Senate) pass an amendment, then 75% of the 50 states must approve it . There is no time limit on how long the states have to approve.
It is also possible the for the states to start the amendment process. But it has never been done.
This is spelled out in Article V of the Constitution.
There have been 27 amendments -- the first 10 are the Bill of Rights which came along to ensure that the original constitution would be ratified in 1791.
There are lots of places to read the whole thing. www.house.gov/Constitutio...itution.html is a good start. www.midnightbeach.com/jon/US-...tion.htm has hyperlinks to each article.
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Re: If a Contstitutional ban does happen...
Thu, February 10, 2005 - 3:28 PM>>>Amendments can be added and then removed.<<<
Almost right. Prohibition still stands as an amendment in the Constitution, but it took another amendment to void that one. That way, if the marriage amendment makes it in, but is later repealed, it will remain an official part of the document until (and if) the government gets overthrown and the Constitution shredded.
Sort of an enduring tribute to the stupidity of Americans, and an object lesson for future generations.
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Unsu...
Re: If a Contstitutional ban does happen...
Fri, April 8, 2005 - 6:17 PMI think there's something more important than the fact that amendments can be repealed. How they come to be repealed is what matters.
For instance, prohibition was repealed when the government finally got it through it's thick skull that they could never enforce prohibition.
If there is a constitutional ban, I suggest gay couples file their taxes jointly in protest. I actually believe this active step may even work against the DOMA.
Imagine everybody who Mayor Newsom allowed to marry filing their state income tax return jointly, to punctuate the whole thing one more time, for all to see.